Plsa & wind

[GoBucks]

? BREEZY is approx 2-7 mph.

Not sure where those speed ratings came from (doesn't matter), but I've played in MANY breezy rounds where it made a 1-11/2 club difference.
As far as realism, set your events however you wish. I would think that someone who has posted MANY, MANY times about the dwindling number of participants in events, you would at least consider their wishes instead of alienating them. After all, it is just a game.

[pmgolf]

Doug, sorry to see you facing the unpleasant side of setting up tournaments. Everyone has their own opinion about how the setup should be done, don't they. Kinda makes all your hard work trying to mimic the pro tour feel unappreciated. I agree with you to keep doing what you're doing, though. There's plenty of room here for more people to set up their own tours and satisfy their own desires!

Pete

[GoBucks]

Doug, I applaud your efforts to bring a touch of realism into the game. I just think that it is better suited for a league like Pete runs, or the NoReq league like Gibby and myself used to run. If someone disagrees with the setup, they still have the mainstream events to play.
in a league, you can opt for reality by:
1) no gimmies (don your flame-retardant BVD's if you try that on the regular tour)
2) eliminating the re qualification ability. If you drop out of a round, you're done. No mulligans. Check out some of the events. Notice the penalty strokes?
3) Use any course and conditions that you choose. When I set up an event for the NoReq league, I chose courses that I liked to play, and almost always no wind. But you had to think about the shot(s) you wanted to hit. A lot of my set ups might not work if you change the green conditions because my pin selection was based on that and the typical club that's chosen. I didn't want the to add another variable. That was my philosophy. Always got a rise out of T. That was always a plus in my mind.

People on the main tour have gotten used to certain things on the main tour. We're all , for the most part, old pharts who are resistant to change.

[Blade]

Please don't confuse Real Golf with Links, Links is a simulation game, for the most part we play on courses that resemble the real thing some renditions of Real Courses are better than others. Most Players have been around since Adam was a Lad and I would guess that the average age of Players is well over 60, I can't speak for others but I play Links for fun & relaxation, so what if a PLSA event has 4 no wind rounds, if conditions were F/F for all 4 I would struggle with Putting as probably many would even without Breeze.
Some have mentioned there are Leagues where you can get all the varied conditions one could ever want, well good luck to those League Owners & Players, I have run many Leagues in the past so I know 1st hand the work involved in running events, these days like a lot of players I just want to be able to fire up Links & have some relaxation / fun, with a drink or two, I have absolutely no interest anymore playing rounds that resemble a painful visit to the dentist.
IMO the feedback from others should be taken on board and a fair & happy balance of conditions should be used on a weekly basis, if it's tough every week people won't play so whats the point in that ? you are just wasting your time.

Cheers

[GoesForIt]

I think there's something very important your complaints fail to take into account. They all have to do with what YOU want and for the mode and conditions you want play. That's fair... but please remember this...

PLSA (and CLSC for that matter) allow Amateur/Pro/Champ/Elite levels of play. They also allow both Challenging and Non-challenging conditions. The pin positions and conditions are the same for all, except for Challenging where, for example, F/F becomes FC/FC). For all those, it's the same course and the conditions imposed must be fair to all levels of players. If you're playing F/F (non-challenging), you may not mind a putt of 12 ft with a 22 inch rise because it will still stop by the hole if you miss. But for a Champ/Elite in Challenging mode, a miss will roll back down the hill past their original lie.

There is simply not enough time in the world to set up different conditions for the 4 player modes and challenging/non-challenging conditions.

I was dead serious (and not being sarcastic) when I said, please contact Mark (helpme@lspn.net) and get the instructions for setting up a tour to your liking. I want you to enjoy playing Links. If you want to set a Pro only with non-challenging conditions, please do so.... or any other setup you like.

For PLSA, and as long as Mark accepts what I'm submitting, I'm going to try to make it playable by all 4 levels of expertise and challenging/non-challenging conditions. It takes me about 2 hours to complete the set-up for one tournament... sometimes more if the pin positions I've selected need to be changed and re-tested.

[Maximus61]

I just want to be able to fire up Links & have some relaxation / fun, with a drink or two, I have absolutely no interest anymore playing rounds that resemble a painful visit to the dentist.

Cheers

I agree with that bud although my wife keeps bugging me to keep down to two drinks per round.

Max

[Blade]

There’s another thing Challenging Conditions, this mode of play was designed by the Boys at the now defunct APCD, for one Course and One Course only and that was for Augusta, so that speed conditions could be used to replicate the Annual Masters event, now even 2001 & Very Poor 2003 Courses are being used, courses never designed with Challenging Conditions in mind, In all honesty I would suggest there are very few suitable courses for challenging & yet people setting up events still persist in using challenging, IMO you reap what you sow.

[pmgolf]

There’s another thing Challenging Conditions, this mode of play was designed by the Boys at the now defunct APCD, for one Course and One Course only and that was for Augusta, so that speed conditions could be used to replicate the Annual Masters event, now even 2001 & Very Poor 2003 Courses are being used, courses never designed with Challenging Conditions in mind, In all honesty I would suggest there are very few suitable courses for challenging & yet people setting up events still persist in using challenging, IMO you reap what you sow.

You are certainly very welcome to your opinion. But I have a different opinion. My opinion is that if you practice enough, you can hone your skills to the point where you can play several hundred of the outstanding and highly rated Links courses using difficult challenging conditions along with wind and shoot scores in the 60's and even some scores in the 50's. The great thing about Links is that if you are unable to improve you skills that much, there is still fun to be had playing any other way you want - stoned, pie-faced or whatever. You don't like playing Links the way I like to play. I don't care! I don't like playing Links the way you like to play. Who cares?! Don't play Links setups that you don't like! Problem solved! Let other people have their fun!

Reap what you sow? Really?

Pete

[Harpo]

I doubt you'll ever see no wind on the PLSA.

Wow, not going to make a lot of the players here happy with that thought.

Ok, PLSA follows the IRL Pro Tour as closely as possible... both courses and conditions. I ask you if you've ever seen a situation where there was absolutely NO breeze for all 18 holes of a round IRL? BREEZY is approx 2-7 mph. That's pretty minimal and realistic.

If you want NO WIND and easy conditions where you can birdie every hole, I suggest you write Mark (lstouradmin) and maybe start and administer a tour that fits your needs and likes. I don't say that sarcastically,. You should enjoy playing LSPN. You should have a tour to your liking.


Again, I don't make the PLSA to my liking, but to what i observe as i watch the Pro Tour.

Hmmm, why should I write to Mark and ask him to have a tour to my liking? We had a tour to our liking but now someone wants to change it to their liking. I see no reason why a NO Wind rd can't be added. And I'm sure I've seen a rd or two that there was no wind. A sim that would change the wind to fit some holes that are sheltered by the wind would be ideal but then we don't have that option. I think some of the players look forward for that no wind rd in hopes to maybe pick up a stroke or two on the leaders and improve their place on the leader board. And no, I don't like where you have to birdie every hole. That is why I moved to Elite a long time ago but if you look at the leader board lately and click on Champ or Elite you don't see anyone playing in them anymore. No fun playing with 1-3 players in a tourney.

[Blade]

There’s another thing Challenging Conditions, this mode of play was designed by the Boys at the now defunct APCD, for one Course and One Course only and that was for Augusta, so that speed conditions could be used to replicate the Annual Masters event, now even 2001 & Very Poor 2003 Courses are being used, courses never designed with Challenging Conditions in mind, In all honesty I would suggest there are very few suitable courses for challenging & yet people setting up events still persist in using challenging, IMO you reap what you sow.

You are certainly very welcome to your opinion. But I have a different opinion. My opinion is that if you practice enough, you can hone your skills to the point where you can play several hundred of the outstanding and highly rated Links courses using difficult challenging conditions along with wind and shoot scores in the 60's and even some scores in the 50's. The great thing about Links is that if you are unable to improve you skills that much, there is still fun to be had playing any other way you want - stoned, pie-faced or whatever. You don't like playing Links the way I like to play. I don't care! I don't like playing Links the way you like to play. Who cares?! Don't play Links setups that you don't like! Problem solved! Let other people have their fun!

Reap what you sow? Really?

Pete

I just knew you would come along sticking your Nose in, aren’t you busy enough running your World Tour without worrying about LSPN events, by the way, when was the last time you teed it up in the PLSA ? Or any other official Tour for that matter. I wish I could post what I really think about you but there’s no point having half a page of BLEEP BLEEP BLEEPS

[Mississippi]

David please,
Tell us how you really feel about Pete!

[Steve Sullivan]

As far as I can see from looking at the Current Events, GoesForIt has set up Challenging and Non-Challenging versions of each event, which I know as director of the European Tour is a VERY time consuming task.

Most courses will be playable at Challenging with careful selection of pins and conditions, not just Augusta!

To be quite honest I think you should all be grateful that someone is taking the time to set up these events. Yet all I can see is a bunch of ungrateful whiners. You have 3 options. Play, don't play, or set up your own season of events. Whatever you decide can we please stop whining about a little bit of wind!

[RoyHiggi]

As far as I can see from looking at the Current Events, GoesForIt has set up Challenging and Non-Challenging versions of each event, which I know as director of the European Tour is a VERY time consuming task.

Most courses will be playable at Challenging with careful selection of pins and conditions, not just Augusta!

To be quite honest I think you should all be grateful that someone is taking the time to set up these events. Yet all I can see is a bunch of ungrateful whiners. You have 3 options. Play, don't play, or set up your own season of events. Whatever you decide can we please stop whining about a little bit of wind!

Always grateful, you guys do a top job setting up all the many and varied events. And there are so many to choose from as well. If you don't like wind, or even a breeze,there are plenty of options still to play. Still the best "computer" game around

[MasterMontgomery]

To Doug Hurst, Steve Suiiivan and Roy Higgi.

Just to let you know that I have a few words
For the 3 of you. Trouble is I do not have
Time right now. However, l do know what
I'm going to say. I'm leaving for lunch then off
to the casino to have some fun(I hope)
Anyway I should have the message to you guys
later today or tomorrow.
I have not forgot for a second and
I'm still engaged.


Douglas M. Montgomery Sr.

[GoesForIt]

I'm going to try an analogy out for size, maybe you'll agree... maybe not.

You guys who are complaining I'll call "drag racers" You want to go in a straight line and go as fast as you can and hit it as far as you can with no impediments to keep you from shooting -50 or better in every tournament. That's fine.

Guys like me and many others are "road racers" who see Links as a true (it is the best still to this day) golf simulation. We like the negotiating the curves and dodging the impediments. I want the best simulation there is where my scores are around the same as the pro player shoot (they often still beat my scores).

The WRLD and EURO are for guys like me and many others.

The PLSA tries it's best to be all things to all players, note the LSPN definition...

"PLSA
The PLSA or 'Professional Links Association' is offered at all skill levels and swing types in Links 2001 & 2003. Played using Stroke rules, events consist of four rounds and last 7 days. The schedule generally follows the real PGA Tour if the courses are available for Links 2003. Links 2003 v1.05, v1.06 MOD, and Links 2001 players are supported."


The CLSC is being run as it has always been run and it too is a compromise played by all players and skill levels...

CLSC
The CLSC or 'Classic Tour' is offered at all skill levels and swing types. Played using Stroke rules, events consist of four rounds and last 7 days. The courses used are from the standard Links library. Links 2003 v1.05, v1.06 MOD, and Links 2001 players are supported.

By their very definition they have to be a compromise.

That leaves it to you "drag racers" to band together to create your "drag strip" You should have your drag strip. I want you to have your drag strip. I suggest you get together and a couple of you step forward to create a tour that you'll be 100% happy with.

That's all I can offer. Unless Mark fires me I'm going to continue to make the PLSA a fair test of golf for all skill levels.