course list

[Bluenoser]

I find it hard to believe that someone can afford to buy a computer, buy Links Golf, have an internet connection, pay their electric bill, yet they have to scrimp for $4-$7 to eat. If money is that tight then they have their priorities wrong.

You might find it hard to believe, but it's a reality for some.

Comparing one time purchases (PC, Links) versus ongoing purchaes (P2P courses) is like comparing apples and oranges. It's not really a fair comparison as once your PC and Links are bought, they're paid for. P2P courses could be considered in that way, but I also consider them to be ongoing purchases as their is always one needed here and there.

Just like MS Courses - there's always a few who don't have them all. You're telling me paying your electric and internet bill every month isn't an ongoing purchase? It's a lot more ongoing than buying a P2P course is. The amount of P2P courses released is about 2 a year now.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges, I'm advocating more options for the Tour.

I still have yet to see one good reason from anyone on this subject as to what is wrong with providing more choices to the players.

[Bluenoser]

Everyone has access to P2P courses. Whether or not they decide to buy them is an individual choice, but the access is there.

Yes BruceM I understand everyone has access to P2P courses. But I guess my point is I feel people should not have to buy courses just to play in an official tournament. Especially with the amount of free courses that are available.

Crissy

Every MS Course is P2P, people had no problem buying them. And a lot of them cost a heck of a lot more than the P2P courses now available.

The real truth is, some people are just against designers charging for courses. Some people feel everything should be free and handed to them on a silver platter. The P2P or not P2P arguement has been beaten to death and back again. It's a simple choice. Just like I said earlier, if they run 20 regular tournaments here and add one that uses P2P courses, you still have plenty of choices for play here. Why do the choices have to be restricted?

Bruce,

So you know the "real truth"? Thanks for letting us all in on it.

I'm a newer player who just joined up here and I don't have a single apcd course where the designer was offering it for sale. My decision not to buy one doesn't make me any less of a person than those that have bought them. Down the road I may decide to get one but for now I like the choice of using many of the free for download courses. Those who decide not to buy shouldn't be lectured to as looking for a handout. I have no problem with designers charging for their courses or the players who decide to buy them the same way I have no problem with players who elect not to buy them. I voiced an opinion earlier against using p2p courses and should have added I was talking about regular tour events. The idea of using them in a separate event sounds fine to me as long as there are other "free" tournaments to play in.

Max

You're reading more into my post than is there. I said

"some people

not all people are against designers charging. I never once said anyone was less of a person for not buying them. Give me a break, geeesh. Being new (your words, not mine) you should do some research on the topic of P2P courses. You'll see why I have the opinion of that being the truth.

As far as lecturing, I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm stating my opinion, the same as you are yours. Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one. We can all choose to take them or leave them as we see fit.

Also of note, as I've stated many many times, it's about choice. If you have 20 or 40 or whatever amount of tournaments to play in, how does adding a P2P Tournament take away from your enjoyment/freedom/choice to play in Tournaments using free courses.

The fact that some people are against having a Tournament here that uses P2P courses just adds to the belief that some people are against them.


I must be ana! or something, because for the life of me I can never figure out why people are against giving more choices. It almost sounds like they feel they are being deprived of something because they won't be able to participate in it.

[sgt_cook]

This is really a moot debate. LSPN offer such a wide range of options that everyones preferences should be able to be satisfied in one fashion or another. Just be greatful we have such a site as this.

[Larry_Warrilow]

as i remarked earlier, the tour has always been a p2p tour.

the vexing question about course files in the past has always been "where can i buy them?", and unfortunately we could usually only recommend ebay. that has all changed. every ms course file can now be obtained from one central place (links cc) any time a player needs it. the same ease of access also goes for apcds, and p2papcds.

so the question is no longer actual access to the files.

if a player doesn't want to purchase files, that is a personal choice, but to try to make a case that tour events should be limited to free files goes against long standing tour policy, and essentially would eliminate many venues that most long time players have spent time and money acquiring over years. talk about unfair.

the apcdp2ps were not used previously on tour because they were direct competition to sales of ms files, and ms wasn't going to use its site to promote other peoples' product. that condition no longer prevails, so the advent of apcdp2ps on the tour should no longer be a problem, especially if it is in their own specific event. lw

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[WackerWoods]

I have seen lists including the one by Chrissie of the MS courses. However if a course is on the Tournament list and not readily available is it possible for the LSPN site to permit a download on a one-off basis or rent- a- course for that particular tournament only?
WackerWoods

[gibby]

Try here http://linkscorner.org/ it will either be free or it will list a price normally $3.99

[Larry_Warrilow]

i don't retain every course i've ever DLd, but i've kept the better ones and the ones used in competition. here's the breakdown:

59 ms
28 apcdp2p
146 apcd(free)

if all these files were used equally in single course 72 hole tour events (hypothetically), the free apcds would be used in 62% of all events, the ms titles in 25%, and the apcdp2ps in 12% of all events. obviously this is an arbitrary sample, but it gives some idea of what the possibilities would be if the tour course list was broadened to include most of the apcds that players have liked over time. lw

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[BruceWallace]

This is really a moot debate. LSPN offer such a wide range of options that everyones preferences should be able to be satisfied in one fashion or another. Just be greatful we have such a site as this.

Sarge, change the spelling of Wisconsin in your profile.

[wistoncap]

There are at least 50-60 courses that still needed to be added to what is available now. After those are all added then, and only then, does the debate over P2P courses need to take place.

[sgt_cook]

Good catch Bruce. Thanks. With these dead hands of mine, I'm surprised I don't have more typo's.

[BruceWallace]

Good catch Bruce. Thanks. With these dead hands of mine, I'm surprised I don't have more typo's.

You are welcome. I am a Minnesota person, about 80 miles N.W. of Superior.

[terrell]

Good catch Bruce. Thanks. With these dead hands of mine, I'm surprised I don't have more typo's.

You are welcome. I am a Minnesota person, about 80 miles N.W. of Superior.

pppfffttt! i thought it was minnethota.

[grim_x]

What? You didn't want to say the "D" word there Bruce?

[Jagan]

Why not set up a tournament for new courses to see what the response would be for that particular course. Make the tournament: 4 rounds, stroke play, any swing or playing level, different tees and playing conditions. Set the tournament up for 64 players.

Set up a forum for respone from the people playing in that particular tournament. I believe that this would enable more courses to be added to the list of courses. It would also be a great way for players to review a particular course or help a designer feel encouragement to design more courses.

If a course gets overwhelming approval then it should be added to the list.

[DMOrb]

I have to agree with the majority here, keep the p2p out of the tours. Though some people will share their p2p's with others via ICQ, Linksters in general should not have to feel compelled to buy or contrive how to get a p2p course.