Mod Reminder

[HTP_ErnieB]

The thing about this argument that I find ironic is that people complain on one hand that Links hasn't had an upgrade or new version in four years but when something comes out such as the mod which is the equivalent of an upgrade, which has improved the ball physics 100% regardless of whether it's initially a little more difficult, and all you hear is I don't want Links 2003 to change. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Also ironic is the number of courses which are rendered "impossible" due to small greens, tight pins, too much slope.... we want a challenge, but we don't really want that much challenge, otherwise why bother with MOD "friendliness"?

Whatever side of the argument you're on, an upgrade to Links 2003 is way overdue and the assimilation of the v1.06 physics into the 1.05 engine seems a logical and welcome step (to most) for a stale game. I for one am all for it, change isn't always such a bad thing.

[terrell]

I don't like to post much because unless you have considerable posts under your belt you're opinion seems to be given less weight in this forum.

sorry, max, but i hafta take exception to that statement. NO ONE has EVER made the comment peeps with higher post counts' opinions are regarded any more highly than peeps with very few posts. having 'known' mark and dc from the time they were pups, this tour couldn't be in better hands from a clique-ish point of view. regardless of post count, everyone is regarded equally.

i have made the comment in the past, it seems logical if you have 100 posts, you will have been more likely to have read other posts, than someone with one post, e.g. stats transferring at the end of a round problem. it's pretty incredible if you have 20 posts, and you've never read of that problem before. huge difference.

My guess is if the silent majority voiced their opinion the vote would be a landslide wanting to keep it easier rather than harder.

i agree it's more than likely the vast majority of linksters would rather have benign playing conditions, sans mod. but making changes to provide more choices hardly translates to making the game harder for anyone. making erroneous assumptions with no basis of fact is far more detrimental than providing more choices within the game. think about it.

[Crissy]

Crissy,

I'm with you and RR_ Desperado. I joined up here a few months ago and some around here would label me as a "newbie" even though I have a few years of Links playing experience. I don't like to post much because unless you have considerable posts under your belt you're opinion seems to be given less weight in this forum. I've been playing Links for quite a while just not here at this site so I don't consider myself a newbie except in terms of post counts. I'd like to see a poll where the current registered members at this site could vote or comment about whether or not they want the more difficult 1.06 conditions in tour events without fear of being criticized if they vote they don't want it harder. Someone else said to leave the 1.06 conditions for the higher elite and champ levels which sounds like a very fair compromise as it seems the real good players are the ones pushing for the harder settings. My guess is if the silent majority voiced their opinion the vote would be a landslide wanting to keep it easier rather than harder.

Max

Yes I agree with you, thats the trouble I think you get a few mod lovers posting how great it is and there doing this and that. But the real people that play the game day in and day out rarely if ever post and there the ones we should be listening to I think. As there are far more of them then the few people like me that have allot of posts.

Every time this mod of doom is brought up there are the same five or six people posting trying to promote and push the mode, but we never hear from the people that really play the game. I like to hear from the people that rarely if ever post such as yourself, be it they like the mod or they don't. Because the way it is it seems we will all get bulldozed into having the mod as a permanent ornament in the game, and the fact of the mater is most people just plain don't like it to begin with.

Crissy

[Bluenoser]

Let's see, they run some MOD events here now and some regular events. I don't see a big uproar over that, it seems to be working fine. The only difference will be that you'll be able to load one version of Links rather than switching back and forth. Both sets of options will still be available.

The thing to realize here is that the combining of the two sets of conditions into one version is only the tip of the iceberg as to what the upgrade will include. There are many many other features and enhancements being discussed such as more display modes, more options in game setup such as being able to select different tees for different holes like you can select different pins now. If you take the time to read the thread at APCD Courses and see the miriad of improvements being suggested you'll begin to understand that the upgrades will be like a new version of Links.

When they went from 386 to LS97 did you all get in an uproar and accuse them of "forcing" something on you?

When they went to LS99 and intorduced PS, did you all get in an uproar and claim something was being "forced" on you?

When they released Links 2003 with RTS, did you all get in an uproar and claim something was being "forced" on you?


Nothing is being forced on you with this upgrade either, you'll still have your 1.05 conditions available in the game. There will just be more options available.


It's always the same people who are trying to "push" the MOD you say? Funny how it's always the same people who trying to "push" it out also.

I guess I'm just a n a l, but I still don't understand how giving people more options is a bad thing. Some of you are acting like they're trying to take something away from you, when in fact all they're trying to do is improve many areas of the game and offer you more.

[Bluenoser]

Here is a sample of the suggestions being made for the upgrades.

Fixing the alt shot drop bug

Adding in the ability to set hole by hole tees just like we do pins today

Adding in a reminder to save score and gamestat, and allowing save of score from gamestat screen

Adding in the ability to select a tour and have all your files at end of game submitted by links directly to the site

Adding in a new drop option (unplayable lie) drop within 2 club lengths

New skys

New resolutions

Wide Screen resolution

A setting in preferences to automatically save ver file, score.txt and gamestat.txt every game

Gimmees allowed in recorded Rounds

moving skies.

rendering of the pano in the same way the sky is rendered to avoid the massive compression.

a camera that would display the area around the aiming marker.

adding a fade and draw setup to RTS

Recorded Rounds - Set the default to automatically record every round. At the end of the round you can always choose no when the window comes up asking you for a file name.
more variable weather conditions - for instance a slider to set the general wind strength rather than just 2 settings breezy/windy. Fog and Rain
more email tournament set up options - allow tour directors to set more rules for the events

the use or no use of camera aiming other than in main view (to mirror elite but in champ and pro modes)

the use of different tees per hole

the use of different stimpmeter or green speeds at different holes ie simulate back 9 drying out etc - actually i wonder if a green speed slider is indeed possible as a start of round option rather than current set speeds

use of handicaps as posted above nice idea to automatically apply during matchplay would be great - ie in a simple format to input the players handicap at the start of the game and the game works out the results deducting shots from the correct holes in line with the hole handicaps.

Add new clubs Such as a Gap Wedge (GW) and/or hybirds, and of course being able to set corresponding distances for them seperate volume sliders for the ambient and main sound effects

A lower and closer view from behind the golfer.

Computer Players getting the ability to adjust the club distances as we can with our live players.

Being able to play a round of golf by playing the back 9 first and then the front 9.

Many of these are common sense/real golf improvements that are needed. Others are great suggestions for more options.

There is no guarantee they will all make it in, but none the less, they are all good ideas.

[Crissy]

Let's see, they run some MOD events here now and some regular events. I don't see a big uproar over that, it seems to be working fine. The only difference will be that you'll be able to load one version of Links rather than switching back and forth. Both sets of options will still be available.

The thing to realize here is that the combining of the two sets of conditions into one version is only the tip of the iceberg as to what the upgrade will include. There are many many other features and enhancements being discussed such as more display modes, more options in game setup such as being able to select different tees for different holes like you can select different pins now. If you take the time to read the thread at APCD Courses and see the miriad of improvements being suggested you'll begin to understand that the upgrades will be like a new version of Links.

When they went from 386 to LS97 did you all get in an uproar and accuse them of "forcing" something on you?

When they went to LS99 and intorduced PS, did you all get in an uproar and claim something was being "forced" on you?

When they released Links 2003 with RTS, did you all get in an uproar and claim something was being "forced" on you?


Nothing is being forced on you with this upgrade either, you'll still have your 1.05 conditions available in the game. There will just be more options available.


It's always the same people who are trying to "push" the MOD you say? Funny how it's always the same people who trying to "push" it out also.

I guess I'm just a n a l, but I still don't understand how giving people more options is a bad thing. Some of you are acting like they're trying to take something away from you, when in fact all they're trying to do is improve many areas of the game and offer you more.

All the examples you are talking about were or are official releases. This other is a bunch of Johnny come lately stuff including the mod, by who knows who. How many people on this site were asked for there input on this mater, none I expect. So here we go again a few people just doing what ever they want over at some other site that most of the people here don’t or wont go anyway, thats just lovely.

I don’t care what they do or don’t do, but don’t try and force a bunch of changes people may not want in the first place without there input. Everyone that plays Links has a right to be involved in any changes to the game, especially if they are permanent changes and its not an official released upgrade. Not just a few that think they know all the answers, most of them would not last here five minutes to begin with.

Crissy

[Maximus]

I don't like to post much because unless you have considerable posts under your belt you're opinion seems to be given less weight in this forum.

sorry, max, but i hafta take exception to that statement. NO ONE has EVER made the comment peeps with higher post counts' opinions are regarded any more highly than peeps with very few posts. having 'known' mark and dc from the time they were pups, this tour couldn't be in better hands from a clique-ish point of view. regardless of post count, everyone is regarded equally.

i have made the comment in the past, it seems logical if you have 100 posts, you will have been more likely to have read other posts, than someone with one post, e.g. stats transferring at the end of a round problem. it's pretty incredible if you have 20 posts, and you've never read of that problem before. huge difference.

My guess is if the silent majority voiced their opinion the vote would be a landslide wanting to keep it easier rather than harder.

i agree it's more than likely the vast majority of linksters would rather have benign playing conditions, sans mod. but making changes to provide more choices hardly translates to making the game harder for anyone. making erroneous assumptions with no basis of fact is far more detrimental than providing more choices within the game. think about it.

terrel,

I state an opinion and you then say I'm "making erroneous assumptions with no basis of fact". Do you know for a fact I'm making an erroneous assumption? Do you really know it all? I still believe newer players to this site don't post for fear that their opinions will be criticized as if they had no idea of what they're talking about. I've read comments in the past in this forum about a person's lack of posts which was a veiled attempt at saying their opinion should be discounted or their question is not intelligent because they "haven't been around much". The number of posts should not be equated with a person's I.Q. I will make an effort next time to find some quotes so you will know my opinions do have some basis of fact.

Max

[gibby]

Let me try this
I know with the new stuff we could have clubhouses,arcade and tour events.
Clubhouses and arcade will have the options for whoever sets it up gets to chose
Normal tour events will have 1.05,1.06 and mixed events that Mark,DC or whomever gets to chose.
Then when we start the game we will have more selections in the drop-down menu that will include normal 1.05 events, 1.06 events and a mixed event, all the while having differant stats and leaderboards and season stats being compiled for each level of play

Is this correct? and if not please correct me

[RR_Desperado]

Where the H is all this free choice you speak of? If the d a m n 1.06 conditions are put into the game I lose ,period.
As an example, the flights were always my favourite event here. One week, DC decides to put some 1.06 conditions into the flight event. My choice would be to play my flight with 1.05 conditions and that choice was taken away.
Human nature being what it is, the arcade section will become a complete joke. Idiots will have it cluttered up with unplayable events that no one will play because they think they are being funny . Who will be the first to have Rivendale, Alberta South, Glen Abbey and Cambrian played with Windy , 1.05 soft and ModFF. With these clueless louts trying to outdo each other it will be hard to find a playable event.
All the hard work and good that Mark has been doing will be at risk if they proceed with this foolishness !!!

[terrell]

I state an opinion and you then say I'm "making erroneous assumptions with no basis of fact". Do you know for a fact I'm making an erroneous assumption?

i'm 99.9 percent sure because i've probably read over half the posts here since i started posting regularly about six years ago. i can't say for complete certainty because i pay a lot more attention to technically related posts than i do personal opinion. but i can say with great certainty your opinion counts every bit as much as mine.

simply because one or two individuals here may at one time told someone they were s t u p i d, means absolutely nothing. i've been told on numerous occasions i'm a horse's rear end. but i regard that opinion the same as all others, there may very well be validity, and i'll evaluate its credibility. i've apologized here many times for making erroneous assumptions.

Do you really know it all?

there's a quote from me you will never find anywhere. if you're not mature enough to admit when you're wrong, you may very well make this assumption.

The number of posts should not be equated with a person's I.Q.

i agree 100 percent. but i think you're confusing i.q. with inexperience. again, it seems logical if you have 100 posts, you've probably read more posts than someone with one post. i realize there are exceptions. but the more you read, the more key points you've experienced. i think it is entirely probable there are the highest i.q.'s have never posted here. sometimes it does seem like a futile exercise.

[tryandtyoneon]

i agree 100 percent. but i think you're confusing i.q. with inexperience. again, it seems logical if you have 100 posts, you've probably read more posts than someone with one post. i realize there are exceptions. but the more you read, the more key points you've experienced. i think it is entirely probable there are the highest i.q.'s have never posted here. sometimes it does seem like a futile exercise.

Sorry T but I have to disagree here........I'll bet there are more folks that look at these pages on a daily basis(usefull info, entertainment or a good laugh).....that never make a post. You might find that the guy that speaks up one day using up his first post, has read more here than you and I put together.

Then you've got peeps with 200 posts that don't do alot of reading, hence the high post count.I'm somewhere in the middle, been here for ever, read some, post some, but skip most of LW's, the wife got tired of telling me what he was saying.

[terrell]

Sorry T but I have to disagree here........I'll bet there are more folks that look at these pages on a daily basis(usefull info, entertainment or a good laugh).....that never make a post. You might find that the guy that speaks up one day using up his first post, has read more here than you and I put together.

i have no doubt those peeps exist, murray.

Then you've got peeps with 200 posts that don't do alot of reading, hence the high post count.I'm somewhere in the middle, been here for ever, read some, post some, but skip most of LW's, the wife got tired of telling me what he was saying.

oops, guilty as charged. i do skip over the cog, ymbc, or 'roy has to play elite 'cause he always whips my b u t t at ammy and i have no chance' posts. btw, i read nearly all of yours (murray) and lw's posts because you're both interesting, regardless of topic.

there are exceptions to (almost) every rule.

still, the point i'm trying to make, and no one's provided evidence i'm wrong, is every poster's opinion, whether you have one or one thousand posts, carries the same weight. i keep reading allegations there is some kind of clique here. that a few make all the decisions for the many. but i've never read/observed any occurrence to support that. name one instance and i'll print this off and eat it.

[Bluenoser]

All the examples you are talking about were or are official releases. This other is a bunch of Johnny come lately stuff including the mod, by who knows who.

Hmmm, since Mark Hulka is involved in the upgrades I would guess that makes somewhat official.

[Bluenoser]

Where the H is all this free choice you speak of? If the d a m n 1.06 conditions are put into the game I lose ,period.
As an example, the flights were always my favourite event here. One week, DC decides to put some 1.06 conditions into the flight event. My choice would be to play my flight with 1.05 conditions and that choice was taken away.
Human nature being what it is, the arcade section will become a complete joke. Idiots will have it cluttered up with unplayable events that no one will play because they think they are being funny . Who will be the first to have Rivendale, Alberta South, Glen Abbey and Cambrian played with Windy , 1.05 soft and ModFF. With these clueless louts trying to outdo each other it will be hard to find a playable event.
All the hard work and good that Mark has been doing will be at risk if they proceed with this foolishness !!!

RR-Desperado, is it really necessary to launch personal attacks?

Can't you just make your point without calling people idiots and clueless louts?

If you're against choice, that's your prerogative and that's fine, but labelling people idiots and clueless louts because they create events that may not be fun for you is uncalled for. Did it ever occur to you that people are creating those events because they like them? No two people like exactly the same thing, don't slam others because their likes are different than yours.

The option is there for you to create events that are to your liking. That's one of the great things about the new Tour site here, it allows a lot of freedon for everyone, including you.

[Crissy]

All the examples you are talking about were or are official releases. This other is a bunch of Johnny come lately stuff including the mod, by who knows who.

Hmmm, since Mark Hulka is involved in the upgrades I would guess that makes somewhat official.

As you well know Mark Hulka does not work for Microsoft, or any other company remotely related to the development of Links. ( Or so he posted himself sometime ago ) So I would think that makes all this about as unofficial as it can possibly be. ( There is nothing somewhat official, it ether is or it isn't )

All I am saying is most people here hate the mode and always have, so don't change the game so they cant play the tour with out it. If you want to have some kind of add-on thing-y such as the mod is now that people can add if they like thats ok. But adding anything unofficial and then forcing them to use it just to play this tour is wrong. It may very well be against the law anyway, and this thread does not mean a hill of beans to begin with who knows.

Crissy