Links Sports.NET

RR_Desperado wrote:My fear is that with the proposed changes to the game, the arcade and official tour events will become a hodge-podge with everyone trying to outdo the other person and dreaming up some rediculous playing conditions. Before we know it, those of us who prefer to play the straight 1.05 version will be hard pressed to find a normal event.[snip]

i agree with this 100 percent. as the home page w/ tournaments has already become an indeterminable mess. but i do believe mark will at some point fix it so we can make some rhyme or reason from it, but in the meantime i simply don't use it at all to choose/view tournaments.

i do instead do like i've always done. i choose my tournaments within the game, and there are already a number of old favorites i recognize and stick with and am confident they'll provide top notch links challenges, devoid of the cartoon crap. anything lw, canuck, mike58, or brucebo (i knew i'd forget some. the linksonline tournaments have been terrific) put together, i will more than likely play. there are others, and i apologize for not recognizing you off the top of my pointy little head, but it's become fairly easy to recognize what to look for in a quality tournament.

edit: oh, and i like the 1.06 mod. any marriage between 1.05 and 1.06 would be acceptable to me. but having them totally separate seems to work for me also. i just wish there was more participation (though there is insurmountable competition as it is).

edit #2: pppfffttt! and i'm also confident dc will get his act together and get the plsa, apcd, and flight tournaments straightened out. the flights have always been my favorite. someday i'd like to see how it feels to win one.

If all this is about is to increase the challange for mod,elite and champ players then so be it, but if it's going to trickle down into pro & ammy events then I have to disagree.
With over 3000 players signed up and lets just say 75% playing pro & ammy, the changes if implemented takes the fun out of playing for the average players.
More flight tournies like having a Mayhem,PLSA,Handicap,etc in each flight will allow lower rated players to increase & improve there games and allow them to learn at there own pace, not force them into top flight conditions unless they wish to join.
And we all know once you jump into the fray if your not prepared you'll get your [censored] handed to ya.

The thing about this argument that I find ironic is that people complain on one hand that Links hasn't had an upgrade or new version in four years but when something comes out such as the mod which is the equivalent of an upgrade, which has improved the ball physics 100% regardless of whether it's initially a little more difficult, and all you hear is I don't want Links 2003 to change. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The wonderful courses that the great designers are creating now a days also could also be considered a huge upgrade but what do you see being played by the majority of Linksters? 10 year old pixilated Microsoft courses. And yet all you hear are the complaints that Links is an old game. Yes it certainly is if you keep playing what was available 5 to 10 years ago. Try adding the mod, some quality courses, a great sound file, and you'll find Links isn't as old as you think it is.

Oh yea, just my opinion.

sinewiz wrote:The thing about this argument that I find ironic is that people complain on one hand that Links hasn't had an upgrade or new version in four years but when something comes out such as the mod which is the equivalent of an upgrade, which has improved the ball physics 100% regardless of whether it's initially a little more difficult, and all you hear is I don't want Links 2003 to change. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Now ain't that the truth.




People are over reacting, which is to be expected whenever change comes along.

At the end of the day nobody is going to be forced into anything. The upgrade will have both 1.05 and 1.06 settings, so you'll still be able to play with the exact same conditions you're using now. What they are doing is making it so you'll be able to choose from either, except it will all be with in the same version rather than 2 like now. Adding choices is never a bad thing. For those who are worried about being forced to play MOD F/F, relax, you'll still have the choice to play 1.05 F/F.

sinewiz wrote:The thing about this argument that I find ironic is that people complain on one hand that Links hasn't had an upgrade or new version in four years but when something comes out such as the mod which is the equivalent of an upgrade, which has improved the ball physics 100% regardless of whether it's initially a little more difficult, and all you hear is I don't want Links 2003 to change. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The wonderful courses that the great designers are creating now a days also could also be considered a huge upgrade but what do you see being played by the majority of Linksters? 10 year old pixilated Microsoft courses. And yet all you hear are the complaints that Links is an old game. Yes it certainly is if you keep playing what was available 5 to 10 years ago. Try adding the mod, some quality courses, a great sound file, and you'll find Links isn't as old as you think it is.

Oh yea, just my opinion.

Good point, I won't mind adding new courses and if they came out w/ a 2007 version I would buy it. Any changes made to a new version would also bring complaints if you compare it to now, and I would deal with those changes.
All this is speculation at this point until we see what happens with the new events that are coming, until then we play under the rules that are here & now.
Bottom line, keep bringing in new players and allow them to enjoy!

The difference here is that any previous upgrades or new versions of the game that have been released always kept the newbies or lesser skilled players in mind. The proposed changes to the game actually make it too easy for both the players and the admin of this tour to take it in exactly the opposite direction. The mod was done to bring more challenge to the game to satisfy the top players or at least the more experienced ones. Bringing mod features into the basic game will just make it too easy for experienced players to exclude the newbies especially in the arcade section. The arguement that they can still make their own events however they like does help some but as arcade events are open to all, along comes a few top players who argue that they can play whatever they like and the away we go with the old "drop down "arguements. When we get the flights back and DC can`t resist throwing in some 1.06 conditions, the players in the lower flights will fast become discouraged.
I`m sorry but adding 1.06 playing conditions to 1.05 is NOTHING like a new release of the game. It is simply another way to make the game more difficult.
1.05 players can play 1.05 and 1.06 players can play 1.06 but WHY force 1.05 players to play a game that includes 1.06 features.
I`m sorry , Mogulbasher, but I , for one, do not want you anywhere near the 1.05 version !!!! Go make a 1.07 if you still feel the need to change something !!
I paid my 59.95 Canadian for this game, spent considerable funds acquiring all the ls course versions not to mention the money spent on pc upgrades to play the game and don`t see how you have any right to mess with my game !
You made your 1.06 version but have still failed to convince the majority of links players that it is a better version so now you are trying to bring it in the back door !!

RR_Desperado wrote:The difference here is that any previous upgrades or new versions of the game that have been released always kept the newbies or lesser skilled players in mind. The proposed changes to the game actually make it too easy for both the players and the admin of this tour to take it in exactly the opposite direction. The mod was done to bring more challenge to the game to satisfy the top players or at least the more experienced ones. Bringing mod features into the basic game will just make it too easy for experienced players to exclude the newbies especially in the arcade section. The arguement that they can still make their own events however they like does help some but as arcade events are open to all, along comes a few top players who argue that they can play whatever they like and the away we go with the old "drop down "arguements. When we get the flights back and DC can`t resist throwing in some 1.06 conditions, the players in the lower flights will fast become discouraged.
I`m sorry but adding 1.06 playing conditions to 1.05 is NOTHING like a new release of the game. It is simply another way to make the game more difficult.
1.05 players can play 1.05 and 1.06 players can play 1.06 but WHY force 1.05 players to play a game that includes 1.06 features.
I`m sorry , Mogulbasher, but I , for one, do not want you anywhere near the 1.05 version !!!! Go make a 1.07 if you still feel the need to change something !!
I paid my 59.95 Canadian for this game, spent considerable funds acquiring all the ls course versions not to mention the money spent on pc upgrades to play the game and don`t see how you have any right to mess with my game !
You made your 1.06 version but have still failed to convince the majority of links players that it is a better version so now you are trying to bring it in the back door !!

what he said

I'm not sure I see your point, Desperado. What is wrong with having more choices in the 1.05 (or 1.07) version of the game? I honestly don't see how including the 1.06 conditions in the "new" version of the game would change anything for you. If you wish to play the 1.05 conditions, they are available. I see it as no difference between the ability to play left-handed or with different animations, for examples. Some like crowds, some don't. Some like the sound scripts, others prefer to play with MP3s or nothing playing in the background. I don't understand the thinking that it's 'a bad thing' to include other options, such as faster greens with a "new" version. Myself, I prefer Elite PS. If that option is removed from the game, I would likely stop playing. But, as long as it's included, I'll probably continue to play.

I also don't see how including more options makes it easier for experienced players to exclude newbies. Newbies may start at the amateur level, but many are turned off and/or away by the scroing that the top players at that level are able to achieve. Isn't there already a perceived exclusion of players (at different levels and different swing types)?. The tour can and does (at least historically) cater to different preferences. A few more options (speed/firmness conditions) may slim out a few fields, but it may also draw a few more players to the tour. In the PS Elite tournaments, there was often less than 5 participants. It's possible that more participants may play if additional options were available.

I can appreciate that many players don't want to change and/or simply prefer 1.05 to 1.06. But the 1.05 options are not being taking away. If newbies to the game play 1.07 (or whatever version it may become), it will not be a change - it's just the way the game is. How many of us have played Links for many years -- as many as 15 years ago (or more). Where would things be if additional options (RTS, for one) weren't introduced? Would we still be playing here after 5 or more years if this tour didn't adjust??

Armand

barry's point is one i've made to 1.06ers before. in the past when given the choice, the vast majority of links tour players have always chosen easier play over possible challenge or greater realism.

that's just the way it is.

keep the new playing challenges restricted to elite and champ, and the remaining 85% of all links players will be pretty happy. there's no reason why there can't be more flighted events in the two most populous levels--my only victories in nine years have all come in flighted events, and that's the biggest opportunity for a win for almost every player.

pro started to win over a decent number of am players in early 2006, and became the most popular level for the first time since the access days. but that doesn't mean these guys are looking for anything more than a relaxing pasttime. save the experiments for those few of us that like them. when the other guys want them, we'll hear about it. lw

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RR_Desperado wrote:WHY force 1.05 players to play a game that includes 1.06 features.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. They're adding more choices to the game, not forcing you to use them.

RR_Desperado wrote:I paid my 59.95 Canadian for this game, spent considerable funds acquiring all the ls course versions not to mention the money spent on pc upgrades to play the game and don`t see how you have any right to mess with my game !
You made your 1.06 version but have still failed to convince the majority of links players that it is a better version so now you are trying to bring it in the back door !!

Again, no one is forcing you to do anything, and no one if messing with your game, you are free to keep playing 1.05 when the new version comes out. Just out of curiousity, when did you become owner of the Code for the game of links?


You also should do a little research before making accusations. This is a joint effort with Mark Hulka and Mogulbasher as well as a few others.

i think the main concern here is will these features show up in the main events and how do we know they are there.
If all these options are available to us in arcade they will also be to the person(s) setting up main events.
All this can be resolved by naming events in a way that we all know which is which and then we have the option to play or not to play.
Change is good somtimes but let us see the changes b-4 we enter a event, then if we chose to play so be it, just don't force the majority to play what the minority wants

on the other hand, i (a 1.05 click player) have always suspected that if microsoft had had the guts to make rts the only swing type for 2k3, we would all now be happily playing it.

same with 1.06.

when the powers that be make it the standard patch, we would all (am/pro/champ/elite) be playing it routinely within a month with few complaints, and before long, few would remember 1.05, just as few remember 2k1 pro. the only problem would be those 47 ms legacy files that haven't been updated (mostly classic real world courses) that wouldn't be very adaptable to many 1.06 green settings.

that's why 1.06 will be a while getting off the runway. lw

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lw makes an extremely good point. humans instinctively fear change above anything else. the reason humans haven't become extinct long ago is their ability to adapt. i think most of us, not all, will be very happy with the changes and more choices.

I think people should leave the game alone it works fine the way it is. Most people on this tour don’t like the mod so leave the game as it was designed I say. If you want the mod then add it after install its up to you just like you do now. The people on the tour here should be able to vote on this matter as they play the game. People should not just add things to the game when they feel like it. In my opinion mod smod if I can win a tourney with out the mod, I can sure win one with it. But as most people I just don’t like it much.

The mod is like cancer you just think you beat it and there you go its back.

Crissy

Crissy wrote:I think people should leave the game alone it works fine the way it is. Most people on this tour don’t like the mod so leave the game as it was designed I say. If you want the mod then add it after install its up to you just like you do now. The people on the tour here should be able to vote on this matter as they play the game. People should not just add things to the game when they feel like it. In my opinion mod smod if I can win a tourney with out the mod, I can sure win one with it. But as most people I just don’t like it much.

The mod is like cancer you just think you beat it and there you go its back.

Crissy

Crissy,

I'm with you and RR_ Desperado. I joined up here a few months ago and some around here would label me as a "newbie" even though I have a few years of Links playing experience. I don't like to post much because unless you have considerable posts under your belt you're opinion seems to be given less weight in this forum. I've been playing Links for quite a while just not here at this site so I don't consider myself a newbie except in terms of post counts. I'd like to see a poll where the current registered members at this site could vote or comment about whether or not they want the more difficult 1.06 conditions in tour events without fear of being criticized if they vote they don't want it harder. Someone else said to leave the 1.06 conditions for the higher elite and champ levels which sounds like a very fair compromise as it seems the real good players are the ones pushing for the harder settings. My guess is if the silent majority voiced their opinion the vote would be a landslide wanting to keep it easier rather than harder.

Max